Talk:2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War

Israeli Genocide in Gaza

Now that even The Guardian has to admit that a genocide is being carried out by Israel in Gaza – see Document:A year late, the Guardian finally permits us to use the term 'genocide' – please Move this page to Genocide by Israel in Gaza.--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 23:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like rather than changing it, it is better to wait. If nothing it will make it easier for casual browsers to find it.Terje (talk) 05:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)---

What if the genocide continues into 2025 and beyond?--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 11:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Genocide by Israel in Gaza

Is it time to revise the title of this article – see https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/friday-17-november-twenty-thousand-palestinians-believed-be-killed-israels-genocide-gaza ?--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 23:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I've moved it to 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict for now. A permanent name to be decided, maybe something with Nakba 2.0?

Terje (talk) 02:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

If the genocide extends beyond 31 Dec 2023, maybe we should call it Gaza War (2023–24) like Gaza War (2008–09)?--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 10:34, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Let's move it to Gaza War (2023–24) (hoping that the genocide ends very soon)!--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 11:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Following this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war?oldformat=true#Requested_move_23_December_2023) discussion as our style guide - apart from personal opinion - still follows, the consensus, seems to be; either leave it as it is or change it to → Israel–Hamas war. "Gaza war" implies the war in Gaza to be taking place, which apart from the style guide arguments, could also imply a civil war within Gaza between e.g Fatah and HM. So. On social media, the only current other name that gained traction is 2nd Yom Kippur War. So I've changed it to that for now. Nakba 2.0 would imho - apart from the style guide - would imply a genocide after mass forced migration - which while partly true, would not mention 7 October itself, and therefore would not be honourable to Nakba Day itself. Let's just wait and not jump the gun as we need the traffic from users that still (yes, on SKYNET Iphone nonetheless) search for us and are not direct visitors. Let's just wait a while now until the world decides a name or the event significantly develops, as like with the Soviet–Afghan War we could change the 1980s Afghan war in now for example to include the Saur revolution and the Soviet and CIA' role in the civil coups ( cutting it up between the 1950-77 & 1978-1989

Jun, Administrator. (talk) 18:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The precedent for Wikispooks is Gaza War (2008–09), so Gaza War (2023–24) is better. Wikipedia might prefer Israel–Hamas War or 2nd Yom Kippur War but neither sits comfortably IMHO on WS.--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 22:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

"Gaza War (2008-09)" is named after Wikipedia Pat.... previous arguments above still stand. I'm actually planning on moving it back once Wikipedia sets on a new 2024 name. For WS users: If anyone feels strongly about Gaza, please be reminded you can also split up this page and start another, thus new page about the atrocities Israel is committing in their war effort in Gaza now, so that the name of this page will also keep reminding and linking to the events of 7 October. Jun, Administrator. (talk) 22:56, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

"2nd Yom Kippur War" sits a bit uneasy with me too, as the two events have little in common except being allegedly being a new "surprise attack". IMO, October 7 was carefully stage-managed by the Israeli deep state (intelligence "failure", removing border soldiers, Hannibalizing its own civilians to maximize causalities, etc...even foreknowledge on the stock exchange...) to create a pretext for eliminating Gaza, and likely further war objectives. "Gaza War (2023–24)" is a bit bland, but will do. Call it a second 911 instead, the comparison more apt.🙂

Terje (talk) 02:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree that Gaza War could be a proper way, and the 7th October has many hall marks of an "allowed attack", I just still want to find a way to keep the 7th October attack prominently featured as well. Mostly for the following;

The following chart shows good that most people on the site use the search bar search for "Israel" or the Supernova music festival, If changed into Gaza war or something like that,this page would just appear with all the other high conflict periods, such as in 2012, 2007, etc, which most people won't find here and won't look or know which one to search for. Also as some of those also don't follow Wikipedia rule solely for the "against Israel and their evil plans" - claim, which is way too simple and goes against the style guide. (some have been changed for 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict to merely Gaza war, which I'm also planning on changing).

and Gaza war would only imply the War only being in Gaza...That's why I suggest to just wait a little, all, "touch grass" as the kids say it and let the page go back to 2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War (temporarily for perhaps half a year at least until the war develops) like I'm would like to do a.s.a.p: do you oppose that user:terje? If so, I'd probably make a sub-page for the Gaza war then, e.g: "2023-2024 Gaza War/7th October attack Jun, Administrator. (talk) 03:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I think 2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War will do just fine.Terje (talk) 04:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Israel’s genocide in Palestine

From Scotland to Ireland, Germany to France, Cuba to Yemen, Spain to Poland, Iran to Indonesia, South Korea to Turkey, Japan to South Africa, Canada to the US, and beyond, the people of the world are rising up in MASSIVE numbers to denounce Israel’s genocide in Palestine – see https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1725943486703165515 --Patrick Haseldine (talk) 00:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Removed content

I removed the last page image including; by Patrick Haseldine, due to violating point 4 of the editor guide where it calls for solid evidence-based viewpoints. In particular the role of jewish immigration due to the The Holocaust, the role of the UN, the role of Transjordan and the Arab League in the 1948 war, the isolation by Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan, fuelling the current Nakba even more and the role of the Hashemite and Ottomans in selling businesses, land to Jews in the early 1900s, the pogroms in the early 1900s in slavic countries, the Bolsheviks politics and mass promotion of immigration and revenge for WW1 and the Russian revolution, the role of Hamas since the 1970s have all played a a part in certain points listed in that image, but are not named. The Iceberg therefore has been placed to the Palestine page, as it removes an image which depicts the event as well or an important part of the event as well, not the background.

Jun, Administrator. (talk) 14:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Moving from 50k

What to split this page into after 50k bytes - which is required by style guide;

1. Split the page into 2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War: this page, only 7 October - and create a second page 2023-2024 2. Israel-Hamas War/Gaza Invasion, 3./Israeli Invasion of Gaza (Wikipedia name) or 4./Operation Swords of Iron 5. Split the page but keep the invasion also here. So only create subpages for themes surrounding this event like in the Donbass so "2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War/Genocide", "2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War/Legacy" "/Geopolitical Reaction" 6. ...?

My vote goes for 3, as that follows Wikipedia guideline, and is honest. Israel has invaded Gaza. Argument 2, as why the split apart from 50k: These are now two different things, and the IDF and Hamas are doing so many weird things, which won't fit into these 50k on this page, unlike The Donbass Invasion in 2022, which is just one prolonged event. In particular called upon voting are user:Patrick Haseldine and user:Terje who contributed the most after me. Vote-deadline would be after the page hits 51k bytes. Jun, Administrator. (talk) 21:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Splitting into October 7 and Israeli Invasion of Gaza would be my preference.Terje (talk) 22:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Splitting into October 7 and Israeli Invasion of Gaza is my preference too.--Patrick Haseldine (talk) 23:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikispooks:Editorial_Policy

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#Political_objectives