Talk:Soviet Union

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Jun, The country has been subject to 80 years of Cold War myths and propaganda. It is seen only to foreign eyes, often helped by units such as the Information Research Department and Operation Mockingbird, which makes the impression of it a bit unbalanced in the West, an enemy image a bit similar to today's Russia. I believe it is more rewarding to add things that are less well known - there are lots of these facts, which I will get around to eventually! IMO Solzhenitsyn's Gulag-archipelago is clearly not a historical document- after 1990 plenty of numbers were released - but twists and exaggerates.

It is the same problem as with other enemies like WW2, other Cold War opponents etc.

This is not a veiled request that you stop adding things, only a mention that I will expand it with different angles later. Terje (talk)---

While I agree with your stances that the page is clearly not done yet, I included it because it is being touted as "having brought down the empire" , of course, that's incorrect, but the fact that the west had such interest to popularize the book made me add it, as it probably means the west liked the narrative it told and conditioned into minds. That brings different angles to every page. So that would be my only request, if you would be willing to name him in a spirit of "work of figures like Solzhenitsyn was widely quoted as anti-soviet propaganda/to adhere and solidify the stereotypes/russophobia" when trimming. --Jun (talk) 12:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

PS: Please expand the Holodomor and the Gulag camps, that was on of the main preps I was making with that section. --Jun (talk) 12:39, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Holomodor, or 'Holomodor' as it correctly should be in Wikispooks parlance ☺ , is a exile-Ukrainian simplified myth from the 1960s. Even the name was designed to coattail on its more famous cousin.
People died of hunger in the Soviet Union in the early 1930, as they did in the 1920s, but not particularly in the Ukrainian core areas. The core nationalist area of Western Ukraine was part of Poland at the time; the lack of food was more in the more 'Russian-speaking' eastern part of the Ukrainian SSR and further east in Russia proper.
The famine was not part of a masterplan for ethnic cleansing; the death numbers are vastly inflated; and it is presented as a purposeful famine for political purposes instead of bad planning. The country was under siege and embargo from foreign powers at the time. And the German Hungerplan of 1941-43 - on purpose - killed far more people in the Ukraine than ever died in the early 1930s.

Terje (talk) 13:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)---

As long as it's presented suitable with the style guide, I'm satisfied with this answer being added to the pages, like is normal with your work. --Jun (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
A note on the Gulags as well: As for Solzhenitsyn's book, some of the same problems, mostly inflation of numbers. For example, reading Solzhenitsyn's Gulag, one gets the impression there were tens of millions of political prisoners at any one time, when in fact well over half the inmates were regular criminals and - this is from memory -I believe the highest number at any one time was a bit over 2 million, in chaotic 1946.
Another thing I remember from the book is the impression that all returned Soviet POW's were sent straight to Siberia. This was not the case - after screening for collaboration, the vast majority was sent home.
That said, Marko Marjanović comes to the (horrible) estimate of 12 million killed by Stalin from all causes. A big enough number, without any reason to go for exaggerations.

Terje (talk) 13:52, 27 May 2021 (UTC)---

Good points, I've trimmed my work to "Official concerns" - western-backed positions, as per style guide. Rest is up to you. --Jun (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)


They still really needs citations. I don't get how hard that is to imagine. Jun (talk)