Hello Urban, you edited out those things that Dr Vogt listed as exceptional. I actually do not think that this is manipulative from his side and that some hospitals are having this situation, some of it may be engineered. But at any rate, to understand the lockdown situation I guess it is good to have this viewpoint in here as well. I forgot to mention the source, which is here. So would you agree to put it back in? -- Sunvalley (talk) 15:50, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
- 1) nothing he said is actually exceptional about the diagnosis. In fact, COVID-19 can not be distinguished from flu by looking at symptoms, to my knowledge. If your immune system is in bad shape you may get pneumonia -- same as flu. 2) The situation in hospitals is a consequence of hysterical reactions, it has nothing to do with COVID-19, IMHO, and today it has drastically calmed down. 3) The presentation with bullets gives his 'arguments' (see 1) a prominent place.
- I read his emotional opinion piece; I think he doesn't tell the truth. He is in panic mode, infected by hysteria, like I was, too. The rest of this piece is lies, propaganda, plain and simple. Spare me the time to go through each and every detail. He says we don't know -- so HE TELLS US WHAT TO BELIEVE and the date is April, 7. We already knew then.
- We know a lot by now. We know lethality, R0 and that hospitals aren't overcrowded. He is either stupid or manipulative. He tells us upfront he is going to debunk 'conspiracies' (he does not use the term) about this orchestrated event. He is 'concerned' about different views, with 'best intentions'. And off he goes. Page after page. This is COINTELPRO style. Counter criticism before it rises high. I appreciate your efforts and this guy is really sophisticated. The best place to put it would be under 'suspicious public relations'. And at the end he gets prophetic: the next pandemic is coming! Soon! A super-virus is approaching, so better get prepared. His foundation... would be interesting to check out his connections to see if he is funded by Billy or public health institutes. And then create a page for this chap. -- Urban 5 October 2020
- Urban - Only to clarify, I do not buy most of what the guy says either, and I do not cite his whole argument about it all being severe, so you don't have to debunk it all. He makes a point that hospitals are overwhelmed and the things that he puts up in his list of 8 points I assume do/ or did exist (at least in some hospitals / imho). It would be much better if we could see some numbers or if the press would report on the issue of hospitals working at capacity vs those that are empty but it will not happen, so some extra explanation follows what people on the ground are seeing (in those cases all empty). If you listen to the video in the first link above, however, that sounds like honest opinion and confirmation that some hospitals are under pressure, if only a small percentage of all.
- I have no clue about symptoms indistinguishable or not but what this Dr Kyle-Sidell said about oxygen deprivation seemed to be new, from listening to a few of his videos I also felt that the situation in NYC may be more severe. But yes, overall this blown out of proportions, it is engineered and people should be able to decide freely without being trampled over by Gates. -- Sunvalley (talk) 01:17, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- And to clarify once more. The whole thing is engineered, from WHO level down, News reporting falling in line, politicians bowing the usual way to the consensus, whoever dares to disagree is attacked. The first video I linked is from a nurse that relates information from a friend that is a nurse in NYC, the nurse in NYC can not say these things .. NDA, or job loss, or whatever. This video (so it appears to me) is 1) an honest account from someone that does work in a hospital that is under pressure. And then 2) it also describes the situation there, which is a total mess and the proceedings that are in place will lead to additional infections with weakened patients and therefore additional deaths. So this is engineering on a different level, way below WHO, but still manipulating the situation. -- Sunvalley (talk) 01:31, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
- Well what I hear you say is the indisputable chaos (early phase, may be 2-3 weeks till April) is mostly iatrogenic and does not necessarily stem from the pathology of a virus. I agree. It is an important point to make. Maybe a section on (media)-induced hysteria, exaggerated rules and adverse effects? -- Urban 5 October 2020
- "mostly iatrogenic and does not necessarily stem from the pathology of a virus" - but I still think it happened in some places. People got sick, like every year, this time (with or without covid) a little more severe flu season and in some locations critical. This just could have happened and is not suspicious in and out of itself. I just assume that what he says did really exist in northern Italy in some spots. Its spin and all, but still happened. I put the argument back in because it is better to make clear what he is talking about, makes a stronger case what he really stands for. The rest down in the article puts it in perspective. By now it is clear what is going on, only the gullible, television addicted (80+%) need to figure it out still. -- Sunvalley (talk) 00:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)